I'm John Bachelor, a great pleasure to visit with Professor Toby Wilkinson.

The professor and I first talked many years ago when he did me the favor of marching me through the kingdoms of the pharaohs.

Now he's done me the additional favor of connecting Egypt to my favorite topic with the Roman Empire, how they did it.

Well, now I know that a deal of how they did it had to do with the riches of Egypt,

but they had to conquer Egypt or they had to assume Egypt.

And how they did that was, well, messy melodrama.

What happens now is that Antony and Cleopatra are, well, they're not exactly domestically happy,

but they certainly do spend a lot of time together.

And we need to make a note here, not all is war and ruin.

They have a club. What is it called the

immeasurables? What do they call their club, professor? Yeah, the inimitable livers. So the people

who live in a way that is quite extraordinary, and it was a club that were devoted to

drinking and to feasting.

It was like a kind of high society drinking club, drinking and dining club.

Yeah, they have their fair share of good times in between the battles.

So we should think of them as in tuxias and slinky dresses with martini smoking cigarettes at a club somewhere?

That's how it was?

The equivalent in the ancient world, yes, certainly.

And that would have more upset Rome, correct?

I mean, Rome would have thought, we've lost him.

He's gone wiggy.

That's not the way for a Roman general to behave.

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