I'm Neil deGrasse Tyson.

Hey, I'm Adam Carolla.

Hi, my name is Penn Gillette.

Not only listening, I'm a guest.

I'm a pen and teller, and I am the fourth listener.

And I am the fourth listener.

And that must make me at least the fourth listener.

It's Dogma Debate with your host, Michael Regillio.

For extra content and to join the conversation, please head over to Dogma Debate with your host, Michael Regillio. For extra content and to join the conversation, please head over to dogma debate.com and join

our Patreon.

And welcome to what promises to be an absolutely fantastic episode of Dogma Debate.

And yes, I say that every time because every episode promises to be an absolutely fantastic episode of dogma debate. And yes, I say that every time because every

episode promises to be an absolutely fantastic episode of dogma debate. Sue me for being an optimist.

But you know what? In this particular case, I have empirical data, testable, repeatable data because

Travis Clyburn is back and every time he has been on this show,

it has been a fantastic episode. So I'm putting my money on it being a fantastic episode.

Again, Travis, welcome.

Thank you for Jillian. Thank you for having me back. I hope the listeners are enjoying my regular

appearance. Well, you do have a smoky, dulcimer-toned voice. So who would...

Appreciate you, yes. You make me want to drop an octave or two when I'm talking, man.

Cigarettes and poor life choices. I recommend it. Yeah, I've heard that. You know, I'm a music nerd.

I will just point out that John Lennon stayed up all night smoking cigarettes and he wanted his to be tired.

...