7/8: Plato and the Tyrant: The Fall of Greece's Greatest Dynasty and the Making of a Philosophic by James Romm (Author)
The John Batchelor Show
John Batchelor
4.5 • 2.8K Ratings
🗓️ 4 July 2025
⏱️ 12 minutes
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Summary
1898 PLATO'S ACADEMY
https://www.amazon.com/Plato-Tyrant-Greatest-Philosophic-Masterpiece/dp/1324093188/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0
Plato is one of history's most influential thinkers, the "sublime philosopher" whose writings remain foundational to Western culture. He is known for the brilliant dialogues in which he depicted his teacher, Socrates, discussing ethical truths with prominent citizens of Athens. Yet the image we have of Plato—an ethereal figure far removed from society and politics, who conjured abstract ideas in peaceful groves—is a fiction, created by Plato's admirers and built up over centuries. In fact, Plato was very much a man of the world.
In Plato and the Tyrant, acclaimed historian and classicist James Romm draws on personal letters of Plato—documents that have long been kept in obscurity—to show how a philosopher helped topple the leading Greek power of the era: the opulent city of Syracuse. There, Plato encountered two authoritarian rulers, a father and son both named Dionysius, and tried to steer them toward philosophy. At the same time, he worked on his masterpiece, Republic, in which he conceived a ruler who unites perfect wisdom with absolute power. That dream has echoed down through the ages and given rise to a famous term, one that Plato himself didn't actually use: philosopher-king.
As Romm reveals, Plato's time in Syracuse helped shape Republic—and also had disastrous results for Plato himself and for all of Greek Sicily. The younger Dionysius, emotionally unstable but intellectually curious, welcomed Plato with open arms, but soon the relationship soured. Plato's close friendship with Dionysius's uncle, Dion—possibly a bond of romantic love—created a rift in the ruling family that led to a chaotic civil war.
Combining thrilling political drama with explorations of Plato's most cherished ideas, Romm takes us into the heart of Greece's late classical age, a time when many believed that democracy had failed. Plato's search for solutions led him to write his fervent plea for a new political order, and also led him to a place where he believed his theories might be put into practice. But Plato and the Tyrant demonstrates how Plato's experiment with enlightened autocracy spiraled into catastrophe, and also gives us nothing less than a new account of the origins of Western political thought.
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | This is CBSI on the world. |
| 0:06.1 | I'm John Batchel. |
| 0:07.3 | With James Rom, the new book is Plato and the Tyrant, |
| 0:10.3 | The Fall of Greece's Greatest Dynasty |
| 0:12.0 | and the Making of a Philosophic Masterpiece. |
| 0:14.6 | Tens of thousands have had their lives cut short |
| 0:17.0 | or are driven into despair |
| 0:19.9 | by the drama of the Dionysian clan, which is now irony represented by |
| 0:28.4 | Dionysus wandering around Corinth looking for work. However, we turn to the Republic. Plato spends |
| 0:34.7 | the rest of his life in Athens, and he dies around 347 is the number I have, |
| 0:40.5 | mid-century. He lives a full life. It was at almost 80, maybe 80 years old, near 80 years old. |
| 0:47.3 | He leaves behind manuscripts that we have enormously preserved, given all that was lost at the burning of the Alexandria Library, |
| 0:57.5 | thanks to Caesar, we didn't lose Plato because he was so popular. |
| 1:02.9 | I guess he was copied everywhere. |
| 1:05.3 | However, we have the Republic to work on because so much of the teaching that I had in the 20th century was |
| 1:13.3 | informed by the Republic and I always puzzled about why it seemed to be kind of despotic. |
| 1:19.3 | Well, it's informed by the events that we just went through as best we could. |
| 1:24.1 | James, the Republic has an understanding of governance. |
| 1:29.0 | There are degrees of governance, aristocracy, democracy, which means landowners, |
| 1:35.5 | oligarchy, democracy, and tyranny. |
| 1:39.0 | Plato, when he wrote all this down and explicated it for the students, in Socrates's voice, |
| 1:44.5 | was that the first time it had been organized or did he have rivals preaching these same |
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