I first met the economist Austin Gulesby around 20 years ago.

I was out at the University of Chicago, spending time with another Chicago economist, Steve

Levitt, who would become my Freakonomics friend and co-author.

Levitt could be shy and soft-spoken.

Goulsby was neither. He was a former debate

champion. He had done improvisational comedy. In fact, Goulsby did a lot of things that most

economics professors didn't do. So I guess I didn't see him as a heavyweight, exactly. If you

had told me back then that Goulolsby would go on to run the

Council of Economic Advisors in the Obama White House, which he did, and that he would become

president of the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, which is his current job, I would have thought

you had the wrong guy. But plainly, I'm the one who was wrong.

Gouldsby has always been considered a top-tier academic researcher and professor.

Temperamentally, he's a hardcore empiricist, but he also has strong opinions.

And so, as the Trump White House embarks on an aggressive overhaul of economic policy,

I thought it might be a good idea to speak with someone from the Federal Reserve,

and I suspected that Goolsby might be very good.

This time, I wasn't wrong, as you'll hear on today's show.

Goolsby has been on Freakonom Economics Radio before in 2018, talking about the

2017 Trump tax cuts. In 2020, talking about federal COVID stimulus, which was the biggest

aid package in modern history. And also back in 2014, in an episode we called Should the U.S.

merge with Mexico. Goulsby wasn't a huge called Should the U.S. merge with Mexico?

Goolsby wasn't a huge fan of that idea.

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