From Relay, this is Upgrade. Episode number 556 recorded March the 24th, 2025.

This week brought to you by Google Gemini Factor and ExpressVPN.

I am one of your regular host, Jason Snell.

And of course, Mike Hurley remains on leave.

And so the next up in the parade of guest stars on Upgrade

is Relay co-founder and co-host of Connected

and Mac Power users and probably other things too.

It's Stephen Hackett.

Welcome back, Stephen Hackett.

Hey, Jason.

It is always fun to be on Upgrade.

It's good to have you back.

It is, I am calling in all my favors for this leave.

So thank you for joining. Of course.

And finally, somebody not named John. So that's good. It's right. How to break the John's

there. There are a lot of Johns out there. But that's over now. It's over now. It's non-johns.

It's four non-johns, something like that. All right.

Uh, snelt talk time. I want to do a two snow talk questions, Stephen. Two.

Ooh. Because they're interrelated and they're kind of follow up, but they're kind of

snow talk. So, um, the first one is from listener Casey, uh, who says, sorry, Lissner Casey, oh, God, who says, I've always been super cagey about the exact town I live in, hashtag don't be creepy. And rather than just say, I live in the nearest city, Richmond. Jason regularly and willfully brings up Mill Valley on his shows.

Am I being too paranoid or is Jason being too forthright or is it both?

We had a Hill Valley question.

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