From Relay, this is Upgrade.

Episode number 554, recorded March the 10th, 2025.

I am your host, Jason Snell, as always.

This episode is brought to you by our good friends at Vitally,

Google Gemini, turbulence forecast, and Oracle. And as we reenter after our wonderful monument break

that we took last week with Mike coming in from the past, we're back to the paternity leave

parade of guest stars. And this week's guest star is the proprietor of

Daring Fireball and a podcaster extraordinaire with the talk show and dithering. It is John Gruber,

the one and only. Hi, John. Hello, Jason. It's good to be on your show. It's, uh, yeah, thanks.

I think we've done this a couple of times now. It's great to have you. I mean, obviously, I've been on the talk show a bunch and it's just nice to chat. We don't get a chance to talk a lot and then we're on podcast together and we talk for a long time. That's what happens. A long time. And it's really nice for it to be on such a great occasion as paternity leave, right? If there's ever a good reason for the usual upgrade duo to take a break, you know, what could be better?

Yeah, exactly right.

It's a very happy occasion.

And every now and then I get a text from Mike.

But, you know, it's great because he's not tuned in.

He's doing his own thing.

He's sending me pictures of babies and stuff instead of talking about what Tim Cook said or what Apple announced. And that's great. Good for him. We'd like to start this

show with a Snell Talk question. And this one I like because it was sort of random and I could

also turn it into a local angle. Frank wrote in to say, Jason, have you been to public events like parades?

What did you see? And how did it go? It says, public events. Okay, first off, it feels a little

bit like he's saying, are you a shut in? Which all of us who work at home do ask ourselves

that question, right? Like, do, do I go outside this week?

It's a thing that happens from time to time.

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