Marshall here, welcome back to the realignment. My guest today is Ian Fletcher, co-author of

Industrial Policy for the United States. We need the competition for good jobs and high-value

industries. Ian and I break down what industrial policy means, why it's suddenly back at the

center of U.S. economic strategy, and how the Trump and Biden administrations have each pursued

their own industrial policy strategies. We discussed the Trump and Biden administrations have each pursued their own

industrial policy strategies. We discussed the rise and fall of free trade orthodoxy, the case

for, quote, managed trade, the debate over whether trade deficits matter, and why national

defense, stable supply chains, and environmental and public health concerns demand a hands-on

approach to the economy.

From a realignment perspective, it's important to note that before 2016, industrial policy

was very much out of fashion in policy circles.

With the coming of President Trump's first term and the Biden administration's subsequent

adoption of aspects of his trade policy, especially towards China, combined with

Biden's investments with the Chips Act with semiconductors and the Inflation Reduction

Act's investments in green technology, all led to a new consensus in favor of the policy.

Right now, though, that consensus is very much up for grabs. Biden's approach was supposed to define

his presidency and promise

his reelection, but voters did not end up caring even before he dropped out of the race.

Trump's tariffs have proven to be incredibly unpopular so far this year,

especially during a period where voters that made clear they care about prices over everything else.

Depending on how the next four years go, there's a world where

industrial policy is written off as a Trump-era dead end. That would be a disaster for the country.

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