This is Jocko Podcast number 503 with Kerry Heldon and me, Jocka Willink.

Good evening, Kerry.

Good evening.

So October 3rd, 1993, I would say the most definitive battle for the United States

of America of that decade, Mogadishu, Somalia.

And looking back from this vantage point now that battle seemed to

for lack of a better word redirect special operations the way we conduct business the way we

train the way we fight it led us to great success in the global war on terror.

I've had two soldiers from that battle on the podcast, Mike Durant, who's a helo pilot from TF-160 nightstalkers, and his aircraft was shot down.

He was captured.

He was eventually recovered.

He came and shared his story.

And also Jim Lechner, who's a ranger officer, who was pretty badly wounded.

And I eventually served with him in the Battle of Ramadi, I guess 20-something years later.

And today we have another soldier who served in special operations and played a pivotal role in that battle.

His name is Norm Houtt, Houten.

And this is an individual who joined the Army out of high school.

May have been a very good decision.

We were just talking about.

It may have been a very good decision for him.

It became a special forces soldier,

eventually spent over a decade at the Army's special operations

...