In the consult, we discuss cases involving violence, sexual violence, abduction, and murder.

Sometimes the cases we discuss involve children.

Listener discretion is advised. Welcome to the consult. I'm Julia Cowley, retired FBI agent and profiler.

We recently concluded our three-part analysis of the murder of Scott Macklam and the Temogen-Kensu question. And I thought we were

finished. However, since airing those episodes, we've received some new information. So we'll be extending the series with two more parts.

Today, I'll be speaking with Herb Wellzer, a retired detective lieutenant from the Port Huron Police Department.

Herb was instrumental in providing us information about this case so we could

conduct our analysis. At the time of Scott Macklems' murder, Herb was working as a traffic

safety officer and wasn't involved in the original murder investigation. Initially, he viewed

Fred Freeman as just another prisoner trying to secure his release.

But in 2007, Herb heard an interview about the case that piqued his interest, and he began reviewing the trial transcripts and police reports and noticed several red flags.

And although Herb never expected to be involved in a defense investigation, he started

actively working on the case in 2008.

In this episode, I'll share my conversation with Herb in which he discusses his investigation, revealing a few new details and some additional insight into some of the people involved.

I want to point out that there were some names that were mentioned, but we took those out for privacy reasons.

So here's my discussion with Herb. In November of 1986, it occurred in the St. Clair County

Community College parking lot, and it was at approximately 9 o'clock a.m. that the police department

received a call of an injured man there in the parking lot.

Do you know who made the 911 call?

I don't think it's even in the police report.

I know it isn't.

Who made the calls, the audio recordings of the calls?

...