The Hello everybody. I'm speaking today with Dr. Carol Swain.

Dr. Swain was a professor of political science and professor of law at Vanderbilt and also worked at Princeton.

Now she came from a backwoods family, 12 kids, mother in some distress, dropped out of school when she was in

grade 8, then got, went back to get her GED, then a two-year community college degree, then a

four-year degree, she stacked up five degrees and ended up with a very

stellar academic career.

She's published or edited 12 books including one that's been cited by the Supreme Court three times. Very solid person from an academic

perspective. Why is she interesting? Well she's interesting for all those reasons but she's

also interesting because she happens to be black and

she also happens to be the target of plagiarism by Claudine Gay at Harvard University.

Now you may remember that Claudine Gay was the last

president of Harvard University and was asked to step down not least because of the

revelation of her proclivity pronounced proclivity for plagiarism and one of the major sources that gay relied on was Carol Swain.

And so we're gonna talk about that.

Join us.

Well, Dr Swain, thank you very much

for agreeing to speak today to me and to everybody who's

watching and listening. I guess we should probably start with a little bit of

description about who you are and where you came from, what you're doing.

Well, everything about me and the positions I take in the world, I know it's rooted in where I came from,

and I was one of 12 children born and raised in rural poverty in

southwestern Virginia. I spent the early part of my life in a two-room shack with

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