Hi, I'm Sarah and this is the Squiggly Careers podcast.

This week is one of our Ask the Expert episodes where you'll hear me in conversation with Professor

Herminia Abara.

We've wanted to talk to Herminia for years, I think probably ever since Squiggly Careers was

born because her book Working Identity is definitely

one of the influences that encouraged us and prompted us to think that we perhaps were

heading heading in the right direction. And more recently her book, Act Like a Leader, Think Like a

Leader has made a real impression on me. I really like her

emphasis on action, sort of first, reflection, second, and practically, how do we learn by doing?

And I think from all of her many years work, what you'll hear from our conversation is a

brilliant combination of research, but then applied in a very useful day-to-day

way. Whether you want to change career, I think we are all leaders in our own way. I think you

will find something useful for you from today's conversation. Enjoy and I'll be back at the end to say

goodbye.

Hermione, welcome to the Squiggly Careers podcast.

I'm really looking forward to our conversation today.

Likewise, Sarah.

I'm really pleased to be here. So I wanted to start with this idea of outside because it's not a word or an idea that I had come across until I read,

act like a leader, think like a leader. And it both stuck with me, but also immediately made

sense to me based on my own leadership experiences and my own reflections. So I wonder if you

could just explain this idea of

outside so that everybody can have that same realization that I had. Okay. It's a made-up word.

...