Hello, friends. It is episode number 305 of the way I heard it. This one's called Charles C.W. Cook.

Took an oath. Because he did chuck and from what I can tell of our conversation, he took it rather seriously.

Yes, he did, Mike. He is what I like to call, first of all, he's a very smart guy and a prolific writer, but he is what I like to call a great American.

You know how I know that he is a great American, Mike. Tell me.

When he was referring to the Premier League in England, he called it soccer and not football.

That's right.

Well, maybe he was just being polite. Maybe he just knew the audience of the way I heard it.

If they're football fans and soccer fans, then in their minds, they're imagining two very different sports and they're not conflating one with the other.

He's an American football fan as well. So he's a fan of the Jaguars, I believe.

Charlie is a heck of a writer. If you read the national review from time to time, you might have seen his stuff.

He writes for other people as well and other places as well. And the reason I wanted to have him on today was, well, there were a lot of reasons.

Actually, one, he was returning the favor. I did his podcast a few months ago and he promised to come on and I was delighted.

And two, I don't know of anybody who has taken a harder or more persuasive line on the insanity of forgiving student loans, except maybe me.

Because there you go. I just use words like insanity because I think it's crazy.

I think what's about to happen and what many, many people in our country and our government are pushing for is a kind of madness that's rooted in something profoundly and deeply unfair.

And I've done my best over the years to articulate why I believe that and why I think the student loan forgiveness program as proposed is an ephema to work ethic scholarships and the thing we try and celebrate at micro works.

But on a macro level, nobody's done a better job than Charles CW Cook and explaining why this idea is not only morally repellent, but why it's fundamentally illegal.

And I just really like where he's coming from on this topic and I wanted to give him a chance to to spell that out.

But of course, Chuck, as these conversations are want to do the topic varied a little bit.

Yeah, it got sporty. But first of all, I just want to say that he would push back a bit against you using the word student loan forgiveness.

He likes to call it transference because we can't forgive the loan.

You know, it's that money's been paid and the services have been rendered.

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