I dreamt that you were twisting through seven suns of gold and the gypsy was insisting

that story must be told I came two in the morning but I took it as a warning that you might be a treasure.

I could touch but never hold.

Hi, everybody.

You're listening to The Soberful Podcast.

And today I'm joined by Karen McMann.

Okay, I can't say it.

You're going to have to say it.

It's just like M.A.N. McMahon. McMahon. Oh, okay. Welcome, Karen. Okay, I can't say it. You're going to have to say it. It's just like a man, McMahon.

McMahon. Ah, okay. Welcome, Karen. So Karen is a, oh, so interesting, divorce and high conflict

coaching strategist. So I was on Karen's podcast a while ago because obviously alcohol can play a big role in relationships

and relationships breaking down. So I was talking about that and I was like, oh, Karen, your work is going to be so relevant to my audience, people going through very difficult divorces. So I thought we've got to get you on to talk about this. How did you get into

this? I think the way we all get into our calling. So I married late. I thought I found my

Prince Charming and seven years into the relationship with two little children. It was, it was

crazy. And I was very confused. And then I took a

couple of years trying to mend. And then once I decided to divorce, it was a three and a half

year high conflict, court-based divorce with two very young children who were very confused.

And so when I emerged, my career at the time was selling commercial printing, which was

in and of itself a dying industry.

And then I just thought, well, this is so pathetic.

Like there has to be something more important after this huge transformation I've gone

through, something more important

...