Hey, it's Owen Jones, welcome to the podcast. Today, Rutger Bregman. Now, he is a really

interesting Dutch historian and thinker. You may have seen him in that viral clip where

he takes on the bank as it dallas, but he's also a brilliant author. Utopia for realists

as an example. His work is really insightful, interesting, thought provoking, and we've

got loads to talk about. Will the pandemic change things? It was a new settlement possible.

What can we learn from history? We cover a lot of ground. He's a really, really thoughtful

guy and quite a kind of a joy to have a chat with one of those people just, you know,

he's a good conversation list. So I hope you enjoy this one. Just basic housekeeping. This

podcast is offering an alternative to a broken media environment and also having some fun.

If you want to help us expand, either use the support function or patron.com forward slash

Owen Jones 84. And you can have a say that way. I know what we do, who we talk to, all

that kind of stuff. If you give us five stars on iTunes, I will be your best friend forever.

And you'll also help get the message out there. So that's really good. And please subscribe.

So, you know, when we got more podcasts coming out and we've got loads. After all of

that, please enjoy this chat. That's a good one.

Well, hello, mate. Wow. It is. It's very good to sort of see you. I can see you. I

need to do it. Well, I can see you. I'm very good to see you. How are we? How are we?

How are you over, obviously, in the Netherlands? How are we coming over there right now?

What can I say, where as most European countries, I guess, right now in the middle of the

strictest lockdown so far, and it seems to be working a little bit. So the rate of infection

is going down, but not nearly as fast enough as they hope. And we're like the number lost in

terms of vaccination. So I think it was only yesterday that the first person was vaccinated.

...