This is Jocco podcast number 272 with Echo Charles and me, Jocco Willink.

Good evening, I go.

Good evening.

So, when I worked with seal leaders and then on top of that interacted with leaders from

the army and from the Marine Corps, sometimes things went great and sometimes they didn't.

If there was a problem between leaders, between leaders, between people, between troops

99% of the time, when I would pull the thread on that problem, at the end of that thread

would be ego.

Did you find it all the time?

I'd find it all time.

And when I retired from the Navy and I started working with leadership in civilian companies,

no shock.

I found the same thing.

When leaders can't get along, when they can't find a solution, when they can't even move

forward despite having a common goal.

When I'm working with companies and I pull the thread on that problem, I find the same

thing.

I find ego.

When egotistical leaders scream and they yell and they get emotional and they would rather

lose, they would rather lose that admit that they're wrong.

They would actually rather die in some cases than admit that they're wrong.

And if you think that that's an exaggeration, history is full of leaders, military leaders,

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