I dreamt that you were twisting through seven suns of gold and the gypsy was insisting

that his story must be told I came two in the morning but I took it as a warning

that you might be a treasure.

I could touch but never hold.

Hey, everybody, and welcome back to the Soberful podcast.

I am joined today by Dawn Eden Goldstein, who has written a fabulous biography on Father Ed and the story of Bill W.

Spiritual Sponsor. Welcome, Dawn. Thank you so much for having me on the show, Veronica.

You're welcome. So Dawn has written several books. She was born in New York City, and this is so

interesting, began her career

as a rock and roll historian. I mean, I could just go into that and talk about that for next hour.

It worked at the New York Post and then New York Daily News and then turned her interest to

spiritual matters, quite a departure from rock and roll history to a Jesuit priest.

So I came across Dawn via another friend and I was like, oh, I'm really, really interested

to know more about Bill W spiritual sponsor because if you are familiar with Alcoholics Anonymous, the structure is it's

encouraged that you get a sponsor, right? So you kind of look around and meetings for a sponsor.

But, you know, that's always been kind of fascinating to people. Who was the first sponsor?

Because if Bill and Dr. Bob started the fellowship or the program.

Who sponsored them?

But, you know, as we know for the history, it evolved out of different, the Oxford

groups and it evolved and there was other stuff there.

So, Dawn, how did you get interested in this story?

Well, I'm not an alcoholic myself, but I've long had just an interest in 12-step

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