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I'm jobbed that to with Dr. Rubin Michael Staff.

Rubin is a senior lecturer at Waikato University in Hamilton, North Island, New Zealand.

And we're speaking of the pending election.

Senator Wright, Senator left.

It is surprising to me that Chris Hipkins, the Senator left,

has what I would understand to be a rational and extremely well-thought-through foreign policy

with regard to threat from China. However, Rubin, yes, Mr. Luxon might be a newbie at this.

But do I remember correctly that this is the Labour Party led by Jacinda Ardern until several

months ago? And it was strikingly soft on the Chinese threat.

So much so, as I recall, one or more of your legislatures being in some way almost assaulted

and bribed and bought by the China, is that ancient history or is that the Labour reputation

of being softer in China?

I think to a degree that is ancient history now, like I see that Labour, including under Ardern,

had wanted to, I think, not fully rhetorically commit to the Western otherwise.

And to the viewpoint that has been merging from Australia and the US in terms of seeing China

...