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you invest. This is a high-risk investment and you should not expect to be protected if something goes wrong. I'm John Batser with Jonathan Wood of the Property Environment and Research Center in Bozeman, Montana.

He is Vice President of Law and Policy policy and we're discussing recommendations on the 50th anniversary of the Endangered Species Act, which is successful, but if you look at the big numbers, it's somewhere on its way to being successful

and what's holding it back. The landowners as I read it in the casual press

over the years Jonathan have an opinion that if something

in danger shows up on your property, if you turn it, if you report it, or it comes often you are in trouble you don't even want to

talk about it they'll be fish and wild love service here pretty soon and you'll lose

access you'll lose you could lose anything you could even lose your property so they have this

concept what is it called shoot and shovel you get you shoot shovel and shut up yes

and that when I first read that I thought shoot shovel and shut up. Yes.

And when I first read that, I thought,

well, that's got to be the Old West.

But no, this is a danger that people fear.

So what is, how do we go positive on this Jonathan overall for all the landowners?

Yeah, so the biggest change is to move from regulations which are sticks to incentives which are carrot and regulations have a role like the

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