I'm John Matthew with my colleague Peter Berkowitz in the Hoover Institution.

We're looking at the challenge of the People's Republic of China, which is right now in trouble, deep trouble.

The economy is very, very, very troubled.

The real estate is a crater.

The consumer is frightened, so therefore there's no consumer commitment at all to the future.

The military, however, is extremely well armed and aggressive in the neighborhood.

At the same time, we have the story of trade, what is to be done.

As I understand it, the Biden administration continued many, if not all, of the trade

limitations that the first Trump administration proposed and executed.

That may be where we're going now.

I mentioned this word tariffs.

Immediately people break out in hives when I raise the possibility of tariffs.

Is that part of the thinking of the tools that must be used in order to back off China from its aggression,

Peter?

It's certainly one of the tools that the China Economic and Strategy Initiative

report contemplates. Of course, we have to be careful with tariffs.

Tariffs have a very imperfect record.

There is a conservative free market concern about tariffs, but it's

worth recalling that even free market stalwart, stalwarts like Milton Friedman, recognize

an exception to their opposition to tariffs, and that is when it comes to national security

matters. For the defense of American national security,

to protect industries that are crucial to American national security, to deal with adversaries abroad,

...