#182 — Unlearning Race

Making Sense with Sam Harris

Waking Up with Sam Harris

Samharris, Currentevents, Politics, Ethics, Religion, Neuroscience, Science, Society & Culture, Philosophy

4.6 • 29.1K Ratings

🗓️ 23 January 2020

⏱️ 40 minutes

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Summary

In this episode of the Making Sense podcast Sam Harris speaks with Thomas Chatterton Williams about the reality and politics of race. They discuss his book “Self Portrait in Black and White,” race as a social and biological construct, the prospects of achieving a “post-racial” society, interracial marriage, and other topics.

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Transcript

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0:00.0	Welcome to the Making Sense podcast. This is Sam Harris. Just a note to say that if
0:22.0	you're hearing this, you're not currently on our subscriber feed and will only be hearing
0:26.4	partial episodes of the podcast. If you'd like access to full episodes, you'll need to subscribe
0:31.7	at samherris.org. There you'll find our private RSS feed to add to your favorite podcatcher,
0:37.3	along with other subscriber-only content. And as always, I never want money to be the reason why
0:42.4	someone can't listen to the podcast. So if you can't afford a subscription, there's an option at
0:47.0	samherris.org to request a free account. And we grant 100% of those requests. No questions asked.
0:52.8	Okay, no housekeeping today. Jumping right into it. Today I'm speaking with Thomas Chatterton
1:01.2	Williams. Thomas is the author of two memoirs. The first is losing my cool. And the second,
1:09.0	the book under discussion, is self-portrait in black and white, unlearning race. And Thomas is a
1:16.9	wonderful writer. He is written for the New York Times magazine, Harper's, the London Review of Books,
1:23.5	and other journals. And here we talk about the reality and politics of race. And cover many
1:33.7	aspects of that question. From his unique point of view, as someone who's both the product of
1:39.2	an interracial marriage and in one himself, anyway, his take on the topic is fascinating and quite
1:47.2	refreshing. And now I bring you Thomas Chatterton Williams. I am here with Thomas Chatterton Williams.
1:58.1	Thomas, thanks for joining me. Thanks for having me. I have to say that my French mother-in-law is
2:03.4	going to be extremely impressed. She's a huge fan of your meditation practice, but she doesn't even
2:08.1	know that you do this other work. Oh nice. Well, that's probably as it should be.
2:13.3	Oh, that's great. So yeah, I feel like I know her a bit from your book. You've written a
2:19.9	wonderful memoir, self-portrait in black and white, unlearning race. And I think we'll just
2:27.2	we'll use that as the focus of our discussion. Before we dive in, how do you summarize your
2:34.6	career thus far as a writer and your interests? What do you tend to focus on?
	...

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