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It's important to stay. My mother met my father when she was 15 and he was 22. Her father died when she was 5 and her brothers at the time were at university.

So the male influence in her life initially was from my father and the parameters were set earlier with an infidelity.

Don't meet me choose between her or you Sally, my mom because I'll choose her. So the youngest sweetheart I love was the parameters were set.

And you'll talk about a timeline of... He was very controlling, you believe, right from the moment that they met when she was an impressionable teenager.

Toesley.

And she said to me in my brother separately, I honestly thought I was losing in touch reality, questioning the facts right and front of me.

It wasn't until perhaps the five years before it happened that we saw something like that happening.

And you could see it unravel and he was playing with her. You know, she matched the step away eventually. A lot of people asked why she didn't. She did eventually.

But he dangled a post-nuptial agreement at the end which gave over all the rights to him and he knew that her world was revolved around him. So she was trapped.

Hi everyone and welcome to Real Crime Profile. I'm Laura Richards, former New Scotland Yard Criminal Behavioral Analyst and author of the Dash Risk Assessment Model and also the author of the book, Pleasing Domestic Violence.

And I'm really pleased today to say we have a very special guest who is David Chalen and so David if you just want to introduce yourself by way of background that would be great.

Yeah, so I'm David Chalen. I'm the youngest son of Sally Chalen who at the moment is serving a murder conviction of my father that happens, who's in that 20 2013. So yeah, and at the moment we're trying to appeal the conviction based on new psychological evidence and also around the idea of coercive control.

I'd law bought in in 2015 that will hopefully create a great understanding of which to overturn the verdict.

Well, we're really pleased to have you here and my other two co-hosts, well, one of them is on the other side of the world currently, which is his traveling elsewhere. So Jim Clemente really wanted to be available to talk to you, but we unfortunately couldn't connect given the time difference and Lisa Zambetti also really wanted to be on because this is a subject that's important to her.

And in fact, she and I discussed your mother's case on episode 113. So for our listeners, if you haven't caught up with Sally Chalen's case, please listen to episode 113 first that we recorded to mark international women's day.

And so David just let our listeners know so we connected because you listened to the episode, didn't you?

Oh, yeah. So I had just was opening my eyes up to, you know, coercive control domestic abuse in the right up to my mom's appeal.

I've really kind of kept this door closed in my life for quite some time. And so in the buildup and in the aftermath and is a permission to appeal the sentence, I should say, I was looking into coercive control trying to understand it.

And I found your podcast, I started to listen to it and found it really great and informative. It's a great kind of resource. I think for everyone to kind of pull their thoughts together on, you know, such topics of domestic violence that are not just here, but around the world.

Absolutely. I think that's a really important point. It's not just in the UK. We've discussed other cases on real crime profile, including Riva Stinkamp in South Africa and Nicole Brown and wrong Goldman and Molly McLaren Alice Ruggles.

Well, sadly, there have been too many and that's really why law change was so important to me and to the other survivors and other services like women's aid who supported and spearheaded that law change.

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