I love it this stuff.

John this is Chuck and Leighton from Ir religiosity how you doing?

I'm doing fine. So welcome to the show John thanks for coming on and how about people who are completely unaware of you like latent just tell us who you are

Yeah, I thought about looking you up on Wikipedia, but I just never got around to it

It's so much effort.

I don't have an entry in Wikipedia.

That's why I guess you don't know of me and maybe others don't as well.

I don't even know how you get on that.

I guess somebody puts you up there, but yeah, I'm a former preacher and I studied, you know, in several different master's degree levels in the philosophy of religion

one of which was under William Lane Craig you might know him. You studied under William Lane Craig?

Yes I think that's in your book why I became an

atheist right? I think you talked about that a little bit yeah. Yes yes and you know

I went to the same schools that Paul Kupan did who is now the president of the

evangelical, uh, evangelical society.

You know, I have connections with evangelicals, you know, having been with them, studied with them,

studied with them, study with fellow students who are now leaders in churches and then seminary's and they know me and I know them and so I've got their attention.

So you weren't just a preacher, I mean you were serious. You weren't just one of these side of the road guys going

out proclaiming the word of God I mean you actually did some serious study well yeah

that's true I did both I was a street preacher when I was first introduced to Christianity on the streets

of Fort Wayne, but yeah I went to several different colleges, you know, Great Lakes Christian College and Lansing and

Lincoln, Christian Seminary in Lincoln, Illinois, and Trinity Evangelical Divinity School

and in North, North Illinois and then Marquette University for a PhD study in theology and ethics and I study there for a year and a half so you know the three master's degree and some PhD work I guess more than a preacher but still you know I was a preacher and I know the ends and outs of church and I know the ins and outs of apologetics.

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