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Well, I'll talk about a little bit about the belief versus them also being internally skeptical

too. So I was just going to say anyway then here, if you're medium who's giving a voice to

a spirit, I think in that whole spiritual era when they're doing the sances, there's definitely

some people doing the sances that have a thing rigged up so that they knock the table underneath

and they're doing a scam. There's a bunch of people sitting around in these parties who

are doing a Ouija board and they really think that they're actually getting massacres.

And likewise, people looking into the seer stone, they are envisioning, they believe their own

thing that they're looking for, they're sending themselves into this kind of visionary trans, whether you

want to, whatever you want to describe about how, anyway, that your own visions of the spirit world

or its non-existence. So they know there's more to the art, like I say, than they let on to the audience,

and that doesn't necessarily mean that they're just simply lying cynics up and down. So often they believe in

the magic, even if they know that some of what they're doing is the trick.

So I'm going to say suggested, like I say, that when Joseph Seniors about to lose his farm in 1825,

...