Today's episode is an encore presentation of a conversation I had with Yule Kwan way back in January

2021, not long after I started the podcast. It was such a good conversation that we turned it

into two episodes, the first time we'd ever done that. Today, we've condensed those two episodes back

into one, keeping just the very best. I hope you enjoy it. You'll is an absolutely amazing human

being. Before we jump into the episode, I have one quick announcement. Regular listeners will

know that I'm helping launch a radical new high school this fall on the Arizona State campus in Tempe.

We are in the process right now of hiring world-class teachers.

If you know anyone who might be interested, all the information is available in the show notes.

And to make it worth your while to pass along that information, I'm offering $5,000

and a signed copy of Freakonomics has a finder's fee for each teacher we hire who found out

about the job because of the podcast. So please spread the word. I'll be very grateful.

My guest today, Yule Kwan, has done a little bit of everything.

He's got a law degree from Yale, taught courses at the FBI, hosted television shows on PBS and CNN, started a frozen yogurt chain, and dealt high-level jobs

at Facebook and Google. He even won season 13 of the TV show Survivor. You don't want to tell

people that you're using game theory, because then that starts freaking people out. They're like,

oh, no, what's it going on? Like, oh, you're manipulating me.

Welcome to people I mostly admire with Steve Levitt.

I first met Yule a few years back. A mutual friend introduced us saying Yule was the smartest person she had ever met. We said, hello, you'll ask me what I was working on,

and I told them about a new project using GPS technology in the criminal justice system.

It just so happened that you had worked for two years on GPS, and he gave me great advice

that really shaped that project. Then he asked me what else was I working on, and I mentioned

another project.

...