Hi, Steve Patterson here, host of the debaters, the show where Canada's top comedians answer Canada's top questions like, is Winnipeg the best place to raise a family?

We're expecting to raise a little heck with this one, so don't miss it wherever you get your podcasts.

This is a CBC podcast.

Welcome to your bonus episode.

I'm Sarah Marshall, and this is the devil you know.

We're talking to Bill Ellis, Professor Emeritus of English and American Studies at Penn State University.

We get to learn from Bill Ellis about folklore and how the satanic panic emerged not just from

pop culture and TV news, but from something much older. Bill Ellis is an ethnographer of folk tales

and is widely published on rumor panics, contemporary legends, and beliefs.

He's also the author of many books, including Raising the Devil, Satanism, New Religions

and the Media, and Lucifer Ascending, the occult and folk and popular culture.

This was a conversation that allowed us to zoom back a little bit from the focus we're taking

in our main episodes and learn

about the more innate human behaviors that lead us to create rumors and rumor panics, like the

satanic panic and so many others. And also a conversation about how to better understand the

history of these panics in order to prevent them in the future.

Bill, I mean, let me just start by saying thank you so much for your work in this area.

Well, I appreciate that. I know for many years, my bosses at Penn State

University had no idea why I was doing what I was doing. That folklore really changed so radically

that it took a long time for people to see any real intellectual value in it. And folklore and urban legends are, that's an area I've also always been very interested in.

And my first question for you is, how did you end up in this field?

What sparked her interest?

...