WTH Is Going On With Civilian Control of the Military? Kori Schake Explains.
What the Hell Is Going On
AEI Podcasts
4.4 • 633 Ratings
🗓️ 22 December 2025
⏱️ 72 minutes
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Summary
While we celebrate the remarkable achievement of 250 years of the US military being a bulwark of democracy, it is important to understand the intentionally laid foundations on which America’s civil military relations tradition rests. Military deference to civilian authority and the legislature is a principle pioneered and championed by General George Washington, setting a powerful precedent for commanding officers to follow… with some instructive exceptions. As we look toward the New Year, and wearily at the political posturing of some military leaders, Kori Schake reminds us of a central theme from her new book, The State and the Soldier (Polity, 2025): “We want a military that's not partisan. We want a military that is subordinate to whatever lunatics the American public see fit to put into high office.” How are military leaders inherently political? How do we avoid forcing them to make partisan choices? And, as we have discussed all year, why does Congress refuse to exercise the powers it has, even in this realm?
Kori Schake is a senior fellow and the Director of Foreign and Defense Policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute. Before joining AEI, Dr. Schake was the deputy director-general of the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London. She has had a distinguished career in government, working at the US State Department, the US Department of Defense, and the National Security Council at the White House. She was also senior policy advisor on the 2008 McCain campaign. She has taught at Stanford, West Point, Johns Hopkins, and the University of Maryland. Dr. Schake is the author of 5 books, with her newest titled “The State and the Soldier: A History of Civil-Military Relations in the United States.”
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Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | This podcast is brought to you by the American Enterprise Institute. |
| 0:03.1 | If you like what you hear, please subscribe, rate, review, and share. |
| 0:07.1 | Thanks for listening. Here's our show. |
| 0:08.7 | What the hell is going on? |
| 0:10.5 | What's really going on? |
| 0:12.0 | We said, what the hell happened? |
| 0:13.5 | You don't have to know what the hell is on it. |
| 0:15.6 | They see what's going on. |
| 0:16.7 | I don't know what's going on. |
| 0:18.0 | What is going on? |
| 0:20.0 | We must find out what's going on. What is going on? We must find out what is going on. |
| 0:30.0 | Hi, I'm Danielle Pletka. |
| 0:32.1 | And I'm Mark Tiesin. |
| 0:33.3 | Welcome to our podcast. |
| 0:34.9 | What the hell is going on, Mark? |
| 0:37.3 | What the hell is going on is we are talking about civil military relations. |
| 0:42.0 | And we are about to celebrate the semi-Quincennial, a new word that I am enjoying saying, of the American founding. |
| 0:50.5 | And we are talking with Corey Shaki, our boss, our leader at the Foreign and Defense Policy Department at AI, who's written a wonderful book on the history of civil military relations and all the traditions of the civilian-run military, where the military defers to the civilian authority, and its roots really go in the just unbelievable character |
| 1:14.0 | of a single man, George Washington, and how he just, you know, what's fascinating about George |
| 1:20.8 | Washington is we don't, he wasn't a fabulous writer like Jefferson or Matt or a Hamilton, |
| 1:26.4 | but his example of his decisions echoes down |
| 1:31.1 | through history and still affects us today. And so Corey unpacks the roots of military deference |
... |
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