Hello and welcome to More or Less on the BBC World Service. We are a weekly guide to

the numbers all around us in the news, man, in life. And I'm Tim Haferd.

Loyal listener Lawrence Copeland wrote in to More or Less at bbc.co.uk after spotting

some surprising figures in the San Francisco Chronicle. The Chronicle compared numbers of

rough sleepers in Great Britain to the city and county of San Francisco and claimed that

San Francisco had more rough sleepers than the whole of Britain. 5,180 compared to 5,096.

Yes, in all of Britain, just 5,096 people sleep outside. That's fewer than sleep outside

in San Francisco alone. Let that sink in for a minute.

To put this into context, the population of the island of Great Britain is around 65 million,

whereas the city and county of San Francisco combined have fewer than 900,000. It seems

incredible if it's true, but is the statistic true. That's what Lawrence wanted to know

and we're here to serve. We checked the official estimate for the city and county of San

Francisco and yes, the latest number is just what the Chronicle suggests. But where does

the official figure come from? Professor Margot Couschel of the University of California

in San Francisco explains the method, a point in time count.

That number comes from our point in time count, which we do every other year. People span

out through the city and try to count everybody who's experiencing homelessness. We know that

these counts inevitably miss people. We also know that they count, do not represent everybody

who experiences homelessness. Let's say over the course of a year, because many people

come in and out of homelessness. In San Francisco, in 2019, there were 5,180 what we call

unsheltered or in the UK rough sleepers, people sleeping outdoors or in places not meant

for human habitation, like in bus stations and things like that.

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