Why Trump Can’t Shake Jeffrey Epstein

The Ezra Klein Show

New York Times Opinion

Society & Culture, Government, News

4.6 • 11K Ratings

🗓️ 17 July 2025

⏱️ 70 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

MAGA has been infighting over the Jeffrey Epstein files. And that’s because the conspiracy theories around Epstein hit at the very core of MAGA’s whole worldview. Today’s episode looks closer at that worldview. Will Sommer has been tracking conspiracies for years now. He was a reporter at The Washington Post and is now at The Bulwark, and he’s the author of “Trust the Plan: The Rise of QAnon and the Conspiracy That Unhinged America.” In this conversation, we discuss the rise of QAnon, Donald Trump’s slippery relationship to the more conspiracy-minded factions of his base and how the intrigue around the Epstein files has challenged his credibility as an outsider taking on the “corrupt elites.” This episode contains strong language. Mentioned: “MAGA Is Tearing Itself Apart Over Jeffrey Epstein” by David French P.R.R.I. Survey Nixonland by Rick Perlstein Book Recommendations: Buckley by Sam Tanenhaus American Tabloid by James Ellroy Low Life by Lucy Sante Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at [email protected]. You can find the transcript and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs.html This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Annie Galvin and Jack McCordick. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, Mary Marge Locker, Jack McCordick and Kristin Lin. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota and Isaac Jones. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Marie Cascione, Rollin Hu, Elias Isquith, Marina King and Jan Kobal. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser. Special thanks to Mia Bloom and Sophia Moskalenko.

Transcript

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0:00.0	The
0:07.0	The There's this old joke.
0:33.8	A conspiracy theorist dies and goes to heaven.
0:36.7	When he gets to the pearly gates, God says,
0:39.2	Welcome.
0:41.0	You can ask me one question.
0:42.5	I'll tell you anything you want to know.
0:44.9	The guy says, I have to know.
0:47.8	Who really killed JFK?
0:50.1	God says, it was Lee Harvey Oswald, and he acted alone. The man pauses for a moment and looks up and says,
1:01.1	wow, this goes even higher than I thought. On July 7th, the FBI and the Department of Justice
1:09.8	released a memo detailing the findings of a, quote,
1:13.7	exhaustive review of investigative holdings relating to Jeffrey Epstein.
1:18.3	This review of more than 300 gigabytes of material, they said, revealed no incriminating client list.
1:25.6	There was also no credible evidence found that Epstein blackmailed prominent individuals
1:29.6	as part of his actions.
1:31.8	We did not uncover evidence he could predicate an investigation against uncharged third parties.
1:36.9	And it went on to say that after thorough investigation, FBI investigators concluded
1:41.7	that Jeffrey Epstein committed suicide in his cell at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New York City on August 10, 2019.
1:50.4	The memo goes on to explain why further files will not be released by the Trump administration.
1:56.1	Information related to Epstein's victims is, quote, intertwined throughout the materials.
2:01.9	It says,
	...

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