Welcome to Betrayal Trauma Recovery. This is Anne. I have my mom back again today because my mom has been on a soapbox lately just to me because she doesn't share this with the world but she's going to be sharing it

with the world today about how she thinks and I agree with her that we should be

talking more about how pornography isn't just viewing pictures but it's actually virtual sex because it involves masturbation and it involves bonding with something else through the chemicals that you would

release during sex. This came up because I am writing a book which I'll tell you

about later and I was asking my mom to help me and she was thinking that somewhere in the book we needed to talk about

masturbation being part of the equation. So will you start with telling me about what your thoughts were and why you thought that was important.

Well the reason I thought it was important is because we often just use the term pornography

and I think a lot of the world just pictures that in their own minds as guys looking at pictures.

And they don't really think that it involves anything else other than just looking at pictures.

But when they're looking at those pictures,

there are real women that had their picture taken.

They're somebody's mom.

They're somebody's daughter, somebody's sister. They are real women.

And the other thought I had is that usually in connection with the porn, men masturbate. Just like Anne said at the opening, that

involves the same chemicals, the same hormonal response that a man would have with a

live woman. So I just felt like instead of everybody just saying

well avoid porn it's not good for you blah blah blah you need to call it

virtual sex because that's what it is. Back when I was younger a lot of

men used phone sex and that's what they called it. Phone sex they would call on

the phone. It was a real woman but she was responding in real time to his comments.

And of course he would be masturbating at the same time.

So that was kind of where I was coming from. And then also the quote in Matthew, I think it's in chapter

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