There is one thing I think we should talk about.

Let me ask you a question, Neil.

Why do you think it is that we've tested this in the past? Whenever you've introduced yourself as a product person versus an agency person, you get a different reaction. Why do you think that is? So you're saying when I introduce people, like, hey, I'm Neil. I do product. Okay, maybe I'll just use myself as an example. Okay. So when I used to go to conferences, I would test like, hey, I have, I'm in software or hey, I have a marketing agency, right? Whenever I would say I have a marketing agency, they start looking around the room, they want to walk into a different direction. Or they look down on you. Or they look down on you. Yeah. I think it's they look in a different direction. Now, when you say your product, they're interested.

Tell me more, right?

Yeah.

Why do you think that is?

Well, I think people want to know what kind of product you have to offer. If you're in software, they're like, oh, can this actually help my life or make, you know, something easier for me? If you're saying you're an agency person, they look at it as like you're pitching them for their money.

If you say like you're a software product person, they look at it as like you're pitching them for their money.

If you say like you're a software product person, they look at it as like, oh, maybe you have a solution to a problem that they have. Yeah. So the way I look at it, Neil, is when you have good experiences with the product, you know the product continues to compound and you know it's reliable. The problem, this is why I think a lot of people don't, they dislike agencies,

is they've had a lot of bad experiences because once you find a really reliable. The problem, this is why I think a lot of people don't, they dislike agencies is they've

had a lot of bad experiences because once you find a really good person at agency, you want to work with that person forever. You're going to try to get max utilization out of that person. That person ends up flaming out sometimes, right? No, that's why a lot of agencies, they throw a lot of people at the problem. You have four different forms of leverage.

Code Capital Media Labor.

Labor is the oldest form of leverage, okay?

So agencies, they throw a lot of people at the problem. You have four different forms of leverage, code capital, media, labor.

Labor is the oldest form of leverage, okay? So agencies historically have thrown people at the problem, and that's why they get a bad rap, right? Versus with a product, it continues to get better. So my point of saying all this is the lesson I was giving to my team is like, hey, guys, like I look at our people, like how we build this company as a product too,

because we're going to need to scale and we need to continually bring revenue per employee up, but it's not to say we're going to cut 30 to 40% of people just like that, but we need to continue to hire AI forward people, but sometimes people think that I just want to remove everyone and go all AI and like yolo it, right? That's not the way.

No, it's it's not the way.

And if you lose people who don't have the same uh thought process and vision

that's okay it doesn't mean that you're right it doesn't mean that they're right you have to do

what you feel is right for the organization sometimes you'll make the right right call. Sometimes you'll make the wrong call. You know, like the person who I lost

asked me, why don't you give me a counter? And then I said, you know, because we evaluate how you get

paid within the region compared to your peers. And they weren't happy with that. They're like, but that's not fair. And I said, question for you, if you got a job locally and you applied to how much would you get paid, a really good job. They're like, maybe half of what you pay. And I'm like, okay. And they're like, but I work for American company, so I want American wages. There's no winning that argument. I'm not saying I'm right. I'm not saying they're right. Sometimes you just have to move on and, you know, do what's best for yourself. Question for you on that one. I mean, he was with you for 10 years. Did he have any incentives tied to his work? Yes. Yeah. So he had really good incentives plus. So on top of the base that he had, he was like, are you saying all in?

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