The first time I spoke with Dessa, she gave us an inside look into the world of indie music.

Now she's back to talk about something completely different.

Her new podcast,

Deeply Human, explores all of my favorite questions. What drives human behavior, why we do what we do,

and why we are the way we are. I realize that this is the pot calling the kettle black, but did you not have enough hyphens

in your multi-hyphenate existence that you needed to add podcaster to the list?

I mean, okay, so on one hand, I feel like you can kind of, you can chalk that up to like

a feather in the hat, right? Or you can be like, my hat is only made of feathers.

Do you know what I mean? Like you're, there's no other way to get a hat. I just feel like

and, you know, like monetizing indie music is tricky and in a luckier way. I feel like

I like language, you know, wherever it goes. And it feels like in some ways, the lane partitions about like what counts as a writer versus what counts as a performer versus what counts as a singer. Like those are way more useful for marketing stuff than they are for making stuff.

Like, I like words and I do anything that has words in it.

The connection between the brain and the heart and one's life choices is very personal for you.

We've talked about this before, but for those who didn't listen to our first conversation,

can you take me back to 2018 when you turn to neuroscience to overcome

heartbreak? Yeah, fell in love with this dude in my early 20s, super rocky, volatile, but very

intense, a lot of sweet moments, but a lot of, like, devastating moments too. And when it was time to fall out of love with this guy, I just didn't seem

to be able to pull that trick off. I just stayed in this really, I don't know, this heartbroken

place that it seemed like my peers were able to recover from. Everybody, everybody falls down

and takes and always dive sometimes in love. But I just like wasn't getting back up. And that persisted for so long, for so many years, essentially, that it was becoming

like, A, a point of embarrassment and B, kind of a character-defining thing, which I didn't like,

and affecting my music, which is like the way that I make most of my money, right? I'm just writing

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