Why Normal People Do Horrific Things: The Neuroscience of Revenge with James Kimmel Jr.

Smart People Podcast

Smart People Industries

Business, Education, Society & Culture

4.6 • 736 Ratings

🗓️ 9 July 2025

⏱️ 59 minutes

🔗️ Recording | iTunes | RSS

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Summary

What if the desire for revenge wasn’t just emotional—but biological? In this gripping conversation, Yale-trained lawyer and researcher James Kimmel Jr. explains how the brain processes revenge, why it feels so satisfying in the moment, and why it rarely brings the peace we expect. Drawing from neuroscience, psychology, and his own powerful personal story, James unpacks how revenge fuels everything from schoolyard fights to mass shootings—and how it’s often disguised as “justice.” We explore the real reasons people commit violent acts, how our justice system may be reinforcing cycles of harm, and what it actually takes to break free. You’ll walk away with a deeper understanding of the human drive to get even—and how to shift that impulse toward healing. If you've ever held a grudge, fantasized about payback, or wondered why letting go is so hard, this episode will change the way you see yourself—and others. Dr. Kimmel's book, The Science of Revenge, is available wherever books are sold. Learn more about Dr. Kimmel at jameskimmeljr.com. Support the Show - Become a Patron! Help us grow and become a Patron today: https://www.patreon.com/smartpeoplepodcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0	This is Smart People Podcast, a podcast for Smart People, where we talk to smart people, but not
0:08.9	necessarily done by smart people.
0:14.8	Hello and welcome to Smart People podcast, conversations that satisfy your curious mind.
0:20.5	Chris Stemp here, thanks for tuning in.
0:23.1	Did you know that behind almost every single violent crime, there is one predominant motive?
0:30.7	And that motive is revenge.
0:33.7	In this episode, I've sat down with James Kimmel Jr., a Yale-trained lawyer and researcher who spent
0:40.6	years studying the psychology and neuroscience of revenge. He opens with a raw personal story
0:48.4	about the night he nearly took justice into his own hands and how that moment shaped his life's work.
0:56.2	We explore what happens in the brain when we're wronged, why revenge feels satisfying,
1:02.6	and how that momentary pleasure often leaves us feeling worse in the long run.
1:08.7	We then dig into a surprising question. Given what we now know about the
1:14.2	science of revenge, what does that say about our justice system? Is it built on fairness, or is it really
1:21.6	just socially sanctioned revenge? This episode will shift how you think about anger, resentment, punishment,
1:29.8	and what it really means to move on. If you've ever fantasized about getting even or wondered
1:36.6	why the pain still lingers even after you do, this conversation will hit home. Make sure you subscribe and follow this show wherever you listen to podcast and tell a friend,
1:49.6	so let's get into it.
1:51.4	Our interview with James Kimmel Jr. about his new book, The Science of Revenge,
1:56.8	Understanding the World's Deadliest Add and how to overcome it. Enjoy.
2:06.1	Early in the book, you share a really personal and powerful moment from your childhood,
2:14.6	one that shows just how deeply the idea of revenge shaped your life. It's
2:19.4	raw, it's intense, and it pulls the reader in immediately. Would you be willing to share
	...

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