Tell me what's wrong with my politics.

Tell me where people like me are missing something fundamental.

This is kind of like a, you know, when Joe and I and, and, and, and Mao had to, uh, you know, hang out with Nixon.

I was definitely thinking of it just like that. Yeah.

Hello. Welcome to the Ezra Clancho on the Box Media Podcast Network. My guest today is

Boscar Sincara, who is the publisher of Jacobin Magazine. If you don't know Jacobin Magazine, it is a genuine

left publication, uh, not, not liberal, not sort of democratic, like left. And it has been, I think, pretty

influential in changing the nature of the American left on, on, on creating new currents that are in my view affecting politics pretty deeply.

He started it when he was an undergraduate at George Washington University, which is incredibly impressive.

And then now it has about a 40,000 person print circulation, uh, and about a million folks on the website each month.

It's been a, it's been a hell of a project. He, uh, has also for a long time been, been a critic of my politics,

which is one of the reasons I wanted to, to talk with him. I wanted to get the critique of me as a, as a neoliberal in on the show,

which is something some of you have been asking for. So this was a very fun conversation to have. I'm appreciative to him for being

game for it before we jump into it. Uh, as always, you can email me guest ideas, show feedback, whatever you may want at Ezra

Clancho at Vox.com again, Ezra Clancho at Vox.com. Well, that said, and without further ado, here is Boscar Sincara. Boscar, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you so much for having me. Let's talk through the sort of bases of your politics, because I think a lot of listeners of the show, you know, there,

I've had a lot of conservatives on here. I've had a lot of liberals on here, but you're an actual socialist. And that means for different people, different things. So, so, so what does it mean to you?

Well, I do consider myself a democratic socialist, but obviously my, my, my goal is not just, let's say, a better score within the current game, but entirely new game with new rules.

So in other words, what that means to me is that democracy is a good thing. And in so far as we have democracy in the political sphere, it should be defended.

So I'm not in favor of any liberalism in the political sphere, but the democracy should also be extended into social and economic spheres as well.

So if democracy is a good thing in civil society, as a norm, the why wouldn't we extend some of the same logic to the workplace, for example, through strengthening in the short term, collective bargaining and the power of unions, but in the long term, through creating worker cooperatives and other forms of democratic workplaces.

And in general, just pushing towards an extension of democracy into a sphere so it hasn't really been in before and thinking that people should have a right to have a say over the forces to govern their lives.

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