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The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Steven Pinker: enlightenment values made this the best moment in human history

The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Vox Media Podcast Network

Politics, News, News Commentary, Philosophy, Society & Culture

4.511.1K Ratings

🗓️ 12 February 2018

⏱️ 67 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Does the daily news feel depressing? Does the world feel grim? It’s not, says Harvard professor Steven Pinker. This is, in fact, the best moment in human history — there’s less war, less violence, less famine, less poverty, than there ever has been. There’s more opportunities for human flourishing, more personal freedom, more democracy, more education, more equality, more technological wonder, than the world has ever seen. In Pinker’s new book, Enlightenment Now, he mounts both his case that the world that this moment is astonishingly great from a historical perspective, and argues that there’s a reason for that: enlightenment values of science, reason, humanism, and faith in progress. Values that he says are under attack from a right that is retreating into zero-sum nationalism, a left that has lost faith in progress, and a public that doesn't always appreciate just how much progress has been made. In this conversation, we talk about Pinker’s new book, as well as his views on political correctness on campus, how politics drives us to irrationality, and what future generations will look back on us with horror for doing. There are things Pinker says in here that I’m skeptical of, as you’ll hear, but I agree with his big point: if all you’re following is the daily news cycle, with our deep bias towards what’s going wrong right now, it’s easy to miss how much has gone right to get us to this moment. Books and articles mentioned in this episode: Pinker's piece for the New Repulibic, Science Is Not Your Enemy Leon Wieseltier's reponse to that piece Yuval Noah Harari's, Sapiens Paul Shapiro's Clean Meat Philip Tetlock's Superforecasting Peter Singer's The Expanding Circle Richard Herrnstein's controversial Atlantic piece on IQ E.O. Wilson's book, Sociobiology German Lopez's reporting on "The Ferguson Effect" Books Recommended: Factfulness by Hans Rosling The Beginning of Infinity by David Deutsch Whole Earth Discipline by Stewart Brandt Atrocities by Matthew White Enlightenment Now by Steven Pinker Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

Hello, I'm a stair-parallel, I'm a psychotherapist and host of the podcast, Where Should We Begin?

0:06.4

I invite you to enter into my office and to listen in on the sessions that I conduct with

0:12.4

people from all walks of life grappling with the challenges and choices in their relationships.

0:19.5

I'll be dropping new episodes every Monday starting July 10.

0:24.4

Listen and follow Where Should We Begin on your favorite podcast app.

0:30.0

It's one thing to protest a speaker, it's the other to prevent the speaker from expressing their

0:35.8

opinion in the first place.

0:49.1

Hello, welcome to Ezra Clancho on the Vox Media podcast network. I am Ezra Klein. I am excited

0:55.4

about the show today. We've got Stephen Pinker on the show. Stephen Pinker is the Harvard

1:00.4

College professor of psychology at Harvard University. He's a very famous linguist and a

1:06.4

couple of years ago he wrote a book that was not primarily about linguistics. It was a book that

1:12.1

changed my mind about some very big things, changed a lot of people's minds about some very

1:15.6

big things called the better angels of our nature. In that book he demonstrated there's been

1:21.4

an astonishing drop in violence in human society over generations. Going back to the earliest

1:29.3

data we have on human beings, we have become less violent, crazy jerks to each other than we were.

1:37.6

It's an argument, if you read that book correctly I think that shows, you know what, for all that we

1:42.7

hear about things getting worse, for all that modern day civilization seems alarming sometimes,

1:48.8

we are living within a story of tremendous progress. A story of so much progress that it is

1:54.9

sometimes hard for us to keep it in mind. So much progress that it almost seems insulting to

1:59.0

the problems we have to state it clearly. He's now brought out a new book called Enlightenment Now.

2:05.6

The new book is a, I would say it's a follow up to better angels of our nature. Bill Gates has

2:09.6

called it his favorite book of all time, so that is quite a recommendation. In the new book what he's

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