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with Indeed. Welcome to the Mona Charin's show show so glad you could join me today i am delighted

to welcome my old friend peter wainer who is with the trinity forum and also a contributor to the new

york times and the atlantic so it is always a thrill to talk to Pete and thank you for joining me today.

It's great to be with you, Mona. I always enjoy the conversations. I want to start with a piece

that you did in the Atlantic about what we have learned from what happened in Minneapolis.

And but before we get to that, I just want to set the stage a little bit so that people

who there may be people out there who don't know this about you, but you worked for

President George W. Bush.

And you were very involved behind the scenes in the effort to create PEPFAR.

So if you could just give us a quick reminder of what PEPFAR was, how it came to be, and what the motivation for it was in the Bush White House.

Sure. Now, I'm happy to do that. What was happening is that in the late 1990s, AIDS was ravaging the African continent. Some countries in

particular, they were just breaking apart. It wasn't just the deaths that were piling up, but the

governing capacity of some of these countries was being crippled. so this was a real crisis humanitarian crisis some

extent a geopolitical crisis or at least a real real challenge president bush came into into office

and early in his in his term in his first term he learned about you know, this crisis that was unfolding and wanted to do something about it.

And he assembled a team at the White House and some figures over at National Institutes of Health at NIH.

...