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The Good Fight

Why Is America Still Friends with Saudi Arabia?

The Good Fight

Yascha Mounk

News

4.7963 Ratings

🗓️ 9 October 2020

⏱️ 56 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Lawrence Wright has been friends with Jamal Khashoggi for nearly two decades. In a new documentary, The Kingdom of Silence, he tells the complicated story of America’s relationship with Saudi Arabia through the lens of Khashoggi’s life—from his youthful enthusiasm for jihadis to his years serving the Saudi royal family and his eventual embrace of the Arab Spring. On the latest episode of The Good Fight, Yascha Mounk and Lawrence Wright, a winner of the Pulitzer Prize and staff writer at the New Yorker, talk about why the United States and Saudi Arabia have maintained an uneasy partnership for so many years, and how a new U.S. administration should deal with the Saudi royal family. The podcast also discusses Wright’s prescient thriller about a global pandemic and his groundbreaking reporting on scientology. Please do listen and spread the word about The Good Fight. If you have not yet signed up for our podcast, please do so now by following this link on your phone. Email: goodfightpod@gmail.com Twitter: @Yascha_Mounk Website: http://www.persuasion.community Podcast production by John T. Williams and Rebecca Rashid Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

It's one thing to speak your mind at a newspaper in Saudi Arabia. It's another thing to do it at the Washington Post in America, in the capital.

0:11.0

It was a profound lever of power that suddenly had been given to a person who

0:16.8

wasn't afraid to speak out. He became a force in a way that no other journalist had ever been in Saudi Arabia.

0:27.0

And now the good fight with Yasha Monk.

0:30.0

My name is Matt Lutz. I am a professor of philosophy at Wuhan University and I am a

0:39.0

contributing writer for persuasion. I want to talk a little bit about my article,

0:43.6

rhetorical Calvinball. The rhetorical Calvinball article was inspired by the

0:48.9

controversy over the Harper's letter that was published several months ago.

0:53.6

There's two sides of this debate where some people are coming out in favor of free speech

0:57.6

and other people are coming out against free speech.

1:01.2

I thought that that was not the right way to frame the debate. People who are

1:06.6

on the liberal left, the locusts, the practitioners of the successor ideology, whatever you want to call that.

1:13.6

They're responding with speech.

1:15.9

The thing is they're just responding with weird and different kinds of speech.

1:20.0

They weren't playing by the same rules of rational debate that most people who are involved

1:26.1

in public discourse try to play by.

1:28.3

They're doing another game, which is a game that I called rhetorical Calvin Ball.

1:32.0

It's based on a game that the protagonists in Calvin and Hobbs play.

1:37.4

It's what I call a meta game,

1:39.0

or it's a game about the game.

1:40.4

The way that you win is by changing the rules on your opponent to make it so that whatever you

1:44.4

are doing counts as winning and whatever they are doing counts as losing.

...

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