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Hello and welcome to the Americano podcast, a series of discussions about American power, politics and society.

On each episode, I will talk to an American expert or an expert on America

about something that's going on in America in 2023. I'm delighted to be joined today by the

great American journalist Michael Wolfe, who is the author of many books, a trilogy of Trump books,

and a book about Rupert Murdoch, the man who owns the news. And Rupert Murdoch has been in the news

a lot this week because of the Dominion versus Fox trial, which was settled at huge cost to the Murdoch Empire.

Michael, I'm right of thinking you were in the court.

Yes, and at a cost of three days, three wasted days to me.

Yeah.

Were you disappointed?

Because I think most journalists, because we tend to obsess about media intrigue and so on,

were looking forward to lots of salacious revelations about the dark workings of the Murdoch Empire?

Well, I had been desperate for a settlement because I didn't want to go to Wilmington, Delaware.

But then having gone to Wilmington, Delaware, I was at least hoping for a few

scenes. I would have liked to have seen 92-year-old Rupert Murdoch under cross-examination. Yes,

that would have been interesting. Having said that, however, every second I thought,

okay, this is going to settle.

There just was no way this was by any stretch of any logic going to trial.

Yes.

There's been a lot of talk in America about the politicization of justice and so on.

And obviously this is different to the Donald Trump case,

...