Who’s winning the counter-offensive?
Ukrainecast
BBC
4.7 • 1K Ratings
🗓️ 20 June 2023
⏱️ 30 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Both Ukrainian and Russian fighters have started describing the counter-offensive as hitting in ‘waves’. But what exactly does that that mean?
The BBC’s security correspondent Frank Gardner and Owen Matthews, a historian and former Newsweek Moscow bureau chief, return to the pod to digest the military tactics and innovations from both sides on the frontline.
Also, we take a closer look at the war’s impact on children in occupied territories - many of whom have been forcibly removed to Russia. Mykola Kuleba, Ukraine’s former ombudsman for children, tells us about the work his charity is doing to find them and bring them home. And Oksana Lebedeva describes the work done to support traumatised children in summer camps back in safer territories.
Today’s episode is presented by Victoria Derbyshire and Vitaliy Shevchenko. The producers were Arsenii Sokolov, Ivana Davidovic, Drew Hyndman and Tom Smithard. The technical producer was Phil Bull. The series producer is Tim Walklate and the editor is Sam Bonham. Email Ukrainecast@bbc.co.uk with your questions and comments. You can also send us a message or voice note via WhatsApp, Signal or Telegram to +44 330 1239480
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | BBC sounds, music, radio, podcasts. |
| 0:04.8 | Hello, it's 482 days since Russia began its invasion of Ukraine. |
| 0:10.7 | And there is a new phrase that keeps popping up in this war. |
| 0:17.5 | It all happens in waves. |
| 0:19.1 | Over the last five days, the Russian troops became more active. |
| 0:22.8 | However, we also got more active, but it's better if everything else remains a secret. |
| 0:28.6 | You'll see what's next. |
| 0:29.6 | That was a Ukrainian soldier on the front line. |
| 0:37.5 | And at the weekend, Russian officials in Zaporizha also used the word, |
| 0:43.0 | saying the enemy's wave-like offensive yielded results, despite enormous losses. |
| 0:49.7 | And that was in response to Ukraine recapturing Piotr Khadkin, a village in the southern Zaporizha region. |
| 0:57.5 | It's an interesting phrase, and it suggests that this war is ebbing and flowing. |
| 1:02.8 | It's incremental piecemeal, fluid. |
| 1:06.8 | Frank, is that a fair description of all those adjectives? |
| 1:11.2 | Yeah, I think so, and we are, to some extent, in uncharted waters here. |
| 1:15.2 | So far, the progress is slow and costly for Ukraine, but it's very early days. |
| 1:20.8 | More in a moment, and also on this episode, we're going to be talking about a particularly chilling tactic. |
| 1:26.4 | Russia seems to be stepping up in occupied territory. |
| 1:30.0 | This is Ukraine, Kostya. |
| 1:32.6 | Ukraine, Kostya. |
| 1:33.8 | For lives and lives. |
| 1:35.6 | Ukraine is an epicenter of unbearable heartache and pain. |
... |
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