I think the claim that I'm making is a bunch of epistemic vices, like bad methodologies for thinking about things, that are being encouraged in the type of way that Jordan Peterson is approaching these topics and Paul van der Klee and Peugeot and Vivek.

And that those vices underpin the same conspiratorial thinking that leads people into like Q&on conspiracism into like anti-vax conspiracyism I'm Welcome to another episode. we've got Nathan from the Digital Nosis YouTube channel.

And we have crossed paths because through Pine Creek.

So Doug was the person who deconverted me.

And I think the part, well, I mean, not exclusively,

but my conversation with him was a major part of sort of like breaking the kind of world view that I had.

And I think because I was in so deep on the philosophy and theology and stuff, like,

you know, I knew all of the kind of techniques that apologists sell. I was reading all the

books and all that sort of stuff. The fact that it worked on me was sort of like a major selling point of that, you know,

like, because there are, you have a lot of conversations with people who are quite firmly

entrenched in the types of beliefs that I had.

And it doesn't always lead to success.

So I think the fact that in my case, it did lead to success

was kind of something that was interesting for Doug to explore and for his audience to explore,

like, you know, revisiting things with me and me talking about like my kind of journey and

process and stuff. And then I started doing things on my YouTube channel around criticizing

particularly fundamentalist religions, but mostly like criticizing apologetics as well,

attempts to essentially smooth over plot holes in theological stories and things.

And I think that that then attracted some people from Doug's audience and there was then some kind of like crossover, I suppose, in our channel goals.

And just at that time in my life, it was kind of fun to hang out and like laugh at some of the kind of the kind of traumatizing things, but also kind of like silliness of the whole like apologetics thing and the way that some of

these people behave and build the whole lives around, you know, like three pretty bad arguments

or something. I've been back to get ready for this and watched your, how I became a Christian

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