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The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Where Jonathan Haidt thinks the American mind went wrong

The Gray Area with Sean Illing

Vox Media Podcast Network

Politics, News, News Commentary, Philosophy, Society & Culture

4.511.1K Ratings

🗓️ 26 November 2018

⏱️ 108 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

Jonathan Haidt is a psychologist at New York University and the co-founder of Heterodox University. His book The Righteous Mind, which describes the different moral frameworks that animate the left and the right, was a key influence on my work. But these days, Haidt is worried about something new. "Teen anxiety, depression, and suicide rates have risen sharply in the last few years," he writes in The Coddling of the American Mind, co-authored with Greg Lukianoff. "The culture on many college campuses has become more ideologically uniform, compromising the ability of scholars to seek truth, and of students to learn from a broad range of thinkers." The kids, in other words, aren't all right. Haidt sees a generation warped by overparenting and smartphones and flirting with illiberalism. He worries over a culture of "safetyism" that confuses disagreement with violence. He sees political correctness on campus as a threat not just to speakers' incomes, but to students' psyches. I often find myself a skeptic in this conversation. The panic over campus activism seems overblown to me. It's suffused with bad-faith efforts to nationalize isolated examples of college kids behaving badly in order to discredit serious critiques of social injustice. But that's why I wanted to have Haidt on the show: If anyone could convince me I'm wrong about this, it'd be him. Recommended Books: Meditations by Marcus Aurelius How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie The Authoritarian Dynamic by Karen Stenner Notes from our sponsors:LEGO: In today's show you heard advertising content from The LEGO Store. With LEGO, every gift has a story. Start your story today at https://LEGO.build/EKS-Pop Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Transcript

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0:00.0

If you can find someone who said something insensitive, you get credit if you call them out publicly.

0:05.0

Now what effect does that have? Does that change them? No, it makes them hate you.

0:09.0

And if it happens them five or ten times, and they're on the left, they begin to say,

0:13.0

my God, what has happened? This is so unfair, and they become much more sympathetic to views on the right.

0:30.0

Hello, welcome to the Zerganshow on the Vox Media podcast network. At the beginning of their book,

0:35.0

The Coddling of the American Mind, Jonathan Hyde and Greg Luciana, they tell a story of Boetheus.

0:40.0

Boetheus was a Roman senator unjustly imprisoned for treason after he crossed the king.

0:45.0

He was in prison and awaiting execution, and he wrote this classic beautiful set of reflections

0:50.0

called the Constellations of Philosophy. In it, Boetheus imagines himself talking to Lady Philosophy,

0:55.0

he tells her about his rage and his sorrow and his fear and how unfair everything is.

1:00.0

And she responds by refocusing him on all that he has to be grateful for, the good fortune he enjoyed,

1:06.0

the amazing career he had, the safety of his family. And in the end, Boetheus, he peacefully accepts his fate.

1:12.0

He's consoled by philosophy. In their book, Hyde and Luciana, both of whom are a psychologist,

1:17.0

they read Lady Philosophy's intervention as this lesson in the power of cognitive behavioral therapy.

1:24.0

They write that, quote, each exercise helps Boetheus see his situation in a new light.

1:29.0

Each one weakens the grip of his emotions and prepares him to accept Lady Philosophy's ultimate lesson.

1:34.0

That nothing is miserable unless you think it's so. And on the other hand, nothing brings happiness unless you are content with it.

1:40.0

This is a lesson they think today's college students need to learn. They're worried about a culture of outrage,

1:45.0

of callouts, of trigger warnings and safe spaces. They see a generation made anxious and lonely by smartphones.

1:51.0

It's been led into a victim outlook by professors and social justice activists. And it has become so intolerant of contrary opinions.

1:58.0

They've come to believe any idea they don't like does literal violence to them.

2:03.0

But the story of Boetheus, it also speaks to the central tension of their book, at least in my opinion.

...

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