Hello and welcome to Trigonometry. I'm Francis Foster. I'm Constantin Kissen. And this is a show

for you if you want on his conversations with fascinating people. Delighted to say we're joined

today by a reverse guest. We've just been on his show and here he is talking to us as the founder

of Rebel Wisdom. He used to be a journalist and documentary filmmaker for BBC and Channel 4 for

many years. Therefore, welcome to Trigonometry. Thank you. It's good to be in the other role. It

is good to have you another role. I thought we had a great productive conversation on your show

and you know, actually maybe we can reveal a little bit of how our connections started,

which was you got in touch with us saying I've got a bit of a story to tell. So before we get

into that very interesting story, just tell everybody who are you, how are you where you are,

what is the journey that leads you here, sitting and talking to us? Yeah. So I'm a journalist,

filmmaker. I thought about this just before I came. I think I might be one of the last people

who actually got their start in journalism by CFAX, which the Americans watching will have no

idea what that is, but I think some of the Brits will. So TV before kind of the internet really

existed, pressed a special button on your remote control and you got up these kind of little hidden

pages. I work for BBC South and CFAX, trained as a video journalist and then ended up with

Channel 4 News for many years, mostly doing foreign affairs for Channel 4 News and then I started

making documentaries and the reason that I guess we're having this conversation is because I began,

I sort of made the move from the kind of mainstream traditional media into the alternative media

in about 2018 with Rebel Wisdom, which started with a documentary that I did with Jordan Peterson

and then it's kind of developed into an interest in the intellectual dark web and also in the topic

of sense-making. And the thing that I'm really interested in, why I'm really interested in this

conversation, we had a great interview the other day, like what is this sort of alternative media

...