When Law Schools Can't Deliver (Ep. 527)
Thinking LSAT
Nathan Fox and Ben Olson
4.6 • 886 Ratings
🗓️ 6 October 2025
⏱️ 102 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Ben and Nathan dig into the ABA’s decision to put Cooley Law School on probation and the broader issue of weak oversight in legal education. They also cover addenda for multiple LSAT scores, early acceptances, and retaking for better scholarships.
0:28 - Cooley Law on Probation by the ABA
Ben and Nathan react to the news that Cooley Law has been placed on probation by the American Bar Association for failing to meet bar passage standards. They question why the ABA continues to allow such programs to operate and highlight the risks for students who enroll in them.
24:45 - Addenda for LSAT retakes
Demon student Sam asks about Michigan Law’s recommendation that applicants submit an addendum if they’ve taken the LSAT three or more times. Nathan advises against volunteering information that could hurt an application and emphasizes that only your highest score matters.
37:43 - Early Application Is Key
A Redditor reports being admitted to the University of Hawaii with a generous scholarship. Ben and Nathan use the example to remind applicants that applying early gives them the best shot at admissions and scholarships.
57:09 - Retaking a 173 for Scholarships
Demon student Jack scored a 173 and wonders whether it’s worth retaking. Ben and Nathan say yes, especially if he’s targeting top schools. They advise him to wait another cycle and keep studying to become a stronger, more competitive applicant.
1:06:20 - UGA Law Lets Undergrads Skip the LSAT
The University of Georgia Law School now allows its undergraduates to apply using ACT or SAT scores instead of the LSAT. Nathan argues that this limits students to only UGA Law and weakens their scholarship leverage. Ben adds that the policy ultimately does a disservice to the students.
1:12:41 - Georgetown Law Group Interview
Demon student Jeremiah describes a Georgetown group interview where participants analyzed a hypothetical applicant. Ben and Nathan break down how to handle this kind of exercise: play along with the scenario, and show reasonable judgment.
1:20:11 - Personal Statement Gong Show
Casey takes the stage on the Personal Statement Gong Show, chasing Sophia’s record of 34 lines.
1:38:17 - Word of the Week: Dispositive
“The panel directed counsel to focus oral argument on the dispositive issues.”
Get caught up with our Word of the Week library.
Transcript
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| 0:00.0 | You know, there's such a simple solution. Make law schools give refunds to people who don't pass the bar. |
| 0:05.4 | They should just rewrite the rule so that the consequence falls on the university much more heavily. |
| 0:16.7 | Hello and welcome to episode 527 of the Thinking Elseup podcast. I'm Ben Olson. With me is Nathan Fox. |
| 0:23.8 | We're the co-founders of Elsaid Demon.com and the Elsa Demon Daily podcast. |
| 0:28.9 | First item on the agenda today is Cooley Law School, which has been on probation by the ABA because they haven't been able to, well, I don't know if they're responsible, but they're unable to reach a certain threshold when it comes to their bar passage rate. |
| 0:48.3 | Yeah, it's like which way is the wind blowing? Sometimes Cooley is on probation by the ABA. |
| 0:52.6 | Sometimes Cooley is not on probation by the ABA. |
| 0:55.8 | The headline that we saw today is the American Bar Association has placed Thomas M. Cooley Law School on probation because of its continued failure to meet the required minimum bar exam passage rate. |
| 1:07.5 | ABA's standard 316 requires at least 75% of a school's graduates who sit for the bar to pass within two years of graduation. |
| 1:15.6 | Cooley, which has campuses in... |
| 1:18.6 | Did you realize this, Ben, that Cooley has campuses in Lansing, Michigan, And Tampa. |
| 1:29.5 | That's what I was wondering. |
| 1:33.4 | I was thinking Lansing, Michigan, but it doesn't say Michigan, yet it does say Florida. |
| 1:34.7 | So is there a Lansing, Florida? |
| 1:35.5 | I wouldn't be shocked. |
| 1:43.9 | I always thought that it was a Michigan school with a campus in Tampa. |
| 1:45.6 | I could be totally wrong about that. |
| 1:48.0 | There is a Lansing, Florida. |
| 1:49.7 | Oh, no. |
| 1:51.1 | No, here it is. |
| 1:53.2 | They have, if you look at their, |
| 1:57.4 | so I clicked on this link to their bar admission, |
... |
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