Well, hello, everyone. I'm James Dobson, and you're listening to Family Talk, a listener-supported ministry.

In fact, thank you so much for being part of that support for James Dobson Family Institute.

Is it possible for Christians who are living in hostile times to still win the culture war, if you will?

That's a question that a lot of Christians are asking, especially when they see themselves through the lens of a secular worldview, where only 40% of Americans now say they even believe in God, let alone have any kind of faith in Christ.

Well, today here on Family Talk, I'm joined by Natasha Crane, speaker, podcaster, author of five books, and including a brand new one that has the most provocative title of any book that I've read recently. It's called When Culture Hate You, Percevering for the Common Good as Christians in a Hostel Public Square. We have a link for the book up at Dr. James Dobson.org.

And Natasha Crane, welcome to Dr. James Dobson's family talk, Dr. Mrs. Dobson, send their warmest regards and inviting you to the program today. Well, thank you so much. It's great to be here. Hate is sure a strong word, isn't it? It is. Yeah. So a lot of people are saying, wait, I don't get it because I think as Christians, we want to hate what is evil and love cling to what is good.

But the culture says, So a lot of people are saying, wait, I don't get it, because I think as Christians, we want to hate what is evil and love cling to what is good.

But the culture says hate is just a horrible word.

And since we don't like what you're doing as Christians, therefore you're haters, so we hate you.

And our hate is somehow justified.

Did I kind of summarize where you're starting as far as your hypothesis for this resource?

Well, you know,

it goes back to scripture itself where Jesus says to his disciples that if the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love

you as its own. And so we get this sense already from just reading Jesus's words that there is

going to be this conflict between

believers and non-believers in the world. So we should expect this, that what we're seeing today,

this increasing hostility, we should expect to see it because Jesus said that in some sense that we

would. You know, it's interesting when you talk about in this book when culture hates you,

the fact that there are a lot of people who have a hard time with the concept of hate, as it were, on the secular non-Christian side of it, because they think that whatever makes them feel good is good. And you walk us all the way through the different paces, and it's a very, very practical resource in terms of how we can define what is good, you know, the role of God and goodness and all those types of things. Can you give us maybe a 60-second overview of where are we, you know, in terms of we're Christians and this is what we believe, but this is what the world sees us as? Because there are some people's minds we're just not going to change. But there are other people who, the ones I'm most concerned with are the ones who are in the church, profess faith in Christ, and yet look at people like you and me and say, you're crazy. Yeah, well, I think where we are today is that it's no longer a situation where people might look at Christians and say, hey, you're wrong about something. You know, intellectually speaking, you're just wrong about this verifiable fact over here. You guys keep going over there being wrong. We're going to be over here doing our own thing. We don't see that anymore. Instead of being seen as being wrong, we're seen as being evil. We're seen as being morally problematic with our beliefs. And we are toxic. We are haters in a sense, like you said earlier. And so where we are today is that we, a lot of people that I've talked to, this was really the catalyst for the book, have been cut off by family members. They have been cut off by friends. They have lost jobs over things that they've said or they've had trouble getting jobs in the first place because they're not willing to adhere to certain ideologies in the workplace. So we see this in a lot of different places, this hostility, and people are experiencing it personally

and, of course, on an aggregate level as well. One of the things I was really taken with in this

book is that you lovingly coax us off the bench. I've said many times before, there's no Switzerland

in heaven, right? I mean, there's no neutrality. And there are a lot of Christians who, let's face it,

...