When a Second Chance Is Worth It (And When It’s Self-Sabotage)
Seeing Other People
Ilana Dunn
4.5 • 608 Ratings
🗓️ 26 May 2026
⏱️ 53 minutes
🧾️ Download transcript
Summary
Dr. Joy Burkheimer joins the podcast for a conversation about second chances, relationship “redemption arcs,” and whether people can actually change after hurting someone they love. From attachment styles and cheating to avoidant behavior, breakups, and the psychology behind going back to an ex, we talk about the difference between genuine growth and simply saying the right things. Dr. Joy also opens up about how her own divorce led her to become a therapist, why relationships naturally evolve every few years, and what it really means to choose your partner over and over again. We also get into dating anxiety, rebuilding trust, listener questions about reconnecting with exes, and why protecting your peace doesn’t always mean walking away.
ALL links here (submit a Q, pitch yourself to the pod, dating coaching & more)
Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at https://www.rula.com/seeingotherpeople #rulapod
Stock up on the best elevated essentials + get free shipping & 365 day returns at Quince.com/seeingotherpeople
Get $10 off your Nutrafol subscription at nutrafol.com promo code SEEINGOTHERPEOPLE
Get 15% off OneSkin, the science-backed skincare brand, with code seeingotherpeople at oneskin.co/seeingotherpeople.
See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.
Transcript
Click on a timestamp to play from that location
| 0:00.0 | I am so excited for today's episode. I am thrilled and honored to be joined by the wonderful Dr. Joy |
| 0:08.9 | Berkheimer, who is a licensed marriage family therapist, relationship therapist, sexologist, and truly just such a bright light. |
| 0:16.4 | Dr. Joy, thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. I'm excited. |
| 0:23.9 | My favorite question, and I have so many questions that I'm excited to talk to you about today as we get into the idea of |
| 0:28.4 | second chances and redemption arcs and can people change. But my favorite question to ask anyone |
| 0:34.1 | with a degree in psychology, and you have many a degree as you are a PhD, which is so |
| 0:41.1 | impressive. What made you want to go down this path? Oh, yeah. That's a great question. |
| 0:49.3 | When I went back for my master's for, it was a dual master's actually, it was marriage and family |
| 0:54.2 | therapy and mental health counseling. It was when I was getting a divorce from the person, |
| 0:59.7 | of course you get married, you think you're going to be married to them forever. So that's what |
| 1:04.0 | made me go back, trying to understand how you get from here to here, from happy to like, |
| 1:09.4 | what is this, trying to understand the patterns. |
| 1:12.5 | I actually had two kids by then by the time I went back. But that was really what got me in there. |
| 1:19.0 | I wanted to know. I'm just, that is how I am. I want to understand things in general. |
| 1:24.7 | I actually don't like going to school. I don't even really like being in class like that, but |
| 1:31.6 | famous last words. Yeah. And then it happened. I was like, even when I went to go through my |
| 1:40.1 | master's to be a therapist, I was doing, I was working at the state attorney's office for about |
| 1:44.4 | like 10 years in the domestic violence unit. And I had gotten to a space at the office where I couldn't |
| 1:50.2 | go, like there was nowhere else to go. And I wanted to do more with people. And I was like, oh, you know, |
| 1:55.4 | actually meeting with women in therapy and working on our confidence and things like that makes, |
| 2:00.6 | you know, more sense for me. I did not know that you had to have and things like that makes, you know, |
| 2:03.8 | more sense for me. I did not know that you had to have a degree for that. I was like, |
... |
Transcript will be available on the free plan in 19 days. Upgrade to see the full transcript now.
Disclaimer: The podcast and artwork embedded on this page are from Ilana Dunn, and are the property of its owner and not affiliated with or endorsed by Tapesearch.
Generated transcripts are the property of Ilana Dunn and are distributed freely under the Fair Use doctrine. Transcripts generated by Tapesearch are not guaranteed to be accurate.
Copyright © Tapesearch 2026.