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Hello! Hello and welcome to the American podcast, a series of discussions about American power, politics and society.

On each episode, I will talk to an American expert or an expert on America about something that's going on in America in 2023. I am delighted to be joined today in the spectator's offices by

no lesser person than Roger Kimball, the editor of the New Criterion and a Spectator World columnist

and a publisher of many brilliant books. Roger,

welcome to London, first of all. Well, thank you, Freddie. It's great to be here in these

spacious and wood-panelled rooms. We're not normally in this room. We're normally in a

slightly smaller room, which is the office, but we're now in the broadcasting room.

The inner sanctum. The inner sanctity.

We're going to talk about Ron DeSantis and the diminishing power of Ron DeSantis, it seems.

I think over the weekend, Ron DeSantis fired some of his staffers.

There's been talk about money running out, even though he did have a lot of big backing, big donors behind him.

What's gone wrong, do you

think, Roger? Because not so long ago, people were talking very seriously about him as a serious

challenger who probably could beat Donald Trump. Yes. Well, you know, it's been fascinating to watch.

I'm a fan of Ron DeSantis. I think he's been a fantastic governor in Florida. He has articulated some very

intelligent responses to some of the incredible nonsense that is flooding America's universities and the

way, the mythitic, toxic, noxious wave of wokeness that has cascaded over many of

our most important institutions from the business world to the entertainment industry to indeed

...