Welcome to another episode of the Oath in the Office, starring Professor Corey Brett Schneider and me, his loyal, evil sidekick, John Fuglesang.

Professor, it's great to see you again.

Thanks so much, John.

Looking forward to the conversation as always. Well, you know what? I've been a fan of your book, The Oath in the Office, for a very long time. We have discussed your work on Sirius XM for years now. And your more recent book, Presidents and the People, five leaders who threaten democracy and the citizens who fought to defend it

is very essential

and might even be more applicable

for the stuff we're talking about

right now, because this is a time when we are, I want to say it's unprecedented, but you've written

a whole book that reminds us, no, no, we've been in spots like this before, and it was the people

who transcended the

corrupt leadership. Absolutely. This is a, you know, a dire time. And part of what we're doing

here is trying to be honest about the fact that, as we've been saying, that this is not just

a constitutional crisis. That would be an optimistic way to see it. It's really a kind of

coup, an auto coup or a self-coup as political scientists see it. But at the same time, you know,

I'm really worried about not going too far in terms of the inevitability of this. In fact,

what I want to stress in all these conversations is that we can recover,

and part of the way that we know this is that we have seen crises like this before. So, yes,

there's... Well, I do want to talk to you on this episode about a certain white supremacist,

older president in very poor health who attacked the civil

service.

But this one's a Democrat.

And I want to ask you about him.

...