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The Ezra Klein Show

What Trump Wants in Venezuela

The Ezra Klein Show

New York Times Opinion

News, Government, Society & Culture

4.314.5K Ratings

🗓️ 6 January 2026

⏱️ 58 minutes

🧾️ Download transcript

Summary

What is America doing in Venezuela? On Jan. 3, the Trump administration launched an operation that ended with the capture of President Nicolás Maduro, who is now in New York City on narcoterrorism and weapons charges. “We’re going to run it, essentially, until such time as a proper transition can take place,” Trump said. Mr. Trump’s policy here is strange for a number of reasons: The U.S. is suffering from a fentanyl crisis, but Venezuela is not known as a fentanyl producer. Venezuela’s oil reserves are not the path to geopolitical power that they might have been in the 1970s. Mr. Maduro was a brutal and corrupt dictator, but Mr. Trump has left his No. 2 in charge. And Mr. Trump ran for office promising fewer foreign entanglements — not more. So why Venezuela, and why now? That’s the question we look at in this conversation. Jonathan Blitzer is a staff writer at The New Yorker. He has profiled Stephen Miller and has been following the U.S. military’s drug boat strikes in the Caribbean, as well as the Trump administration’s evolving agenda in Latin America. He’s also the author of the book “Everyone Who Is Gone Is Here: The United States, Central America, and the Making of a Crisis. Mentioned: Everyone Who Is Gone Is Here by Jonathan Blitzer Alien Enemies Act 1979/1980 Refugee Act Monroe Doctrine “How Stephen Miller Manipulates Donald Trump to Further His Immigration Obsession” by Jonathan Blitzer “Who’s Running Venezuela After the Fall of Maduro?” by Jonathan Blitzer Book Recommendations: The Known World by Edward P. Jones What You Have Heard Is True by Carolyn Forché The Spy and the Traitor by Ben Macintyre Thoughts? Guest suggestions? Email us at ezrakleinshow@nytimes.com. You can find transcripts (posted midday) and more episodes of “The Ezra Klein Show” at nytimes.com/ezra-klein-podcast, and you can find Ezra on Twitter @ezraklein. Book recommendations from all our guests are listed at https://www.nytimes.com/article/ezra-klein-show-book-recs. This episode of “The Ezra Klein Show” was produced by Jack McCordick. Fact-checking by Michelle Harris, with Mary Marge Locker and Kate Sinclair. Our senior engineer is Jeff Geld, with additional mixing by Aman Sahota. Our executive producer is Claire Gordon. The show’s production team also includes Marie Cascione, Annie Galvin, Rollin Hu, Kristin Lin, Emma Kehlbeck, Marina King and Jan Kobal. Original music by Pat McCusker. Audience strategy by Kristina Samulewski and Shannon Busta. The director of New York Times Opinion Audio is Annie-Rose Strasser.

Transcript

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0:00.0

The

0:07.0

The I have one question right now.

0:34.5

What is America doing in Venezuela?

0:42.1

Over the weekend on January 3rd, the Trump administration launched an operation that ended with the capture of Nicholas Maduro, the president

0:47.6

of Venezuela. We have heard a lot of reasons from the Trump administration of why they decided to do

0:53.2

this.

0:59.8

Maduro, not a good person, not a good guy, a repressive, brutal dictator who has made the lives of many, many people miserable. But there are a lot of brutal, repressive dictators in this

1:06.1

world. Venezuela is not a leading source of America's drug crisis. We have a fentanyl crisis, not a cocaine crisis.

1:15.3

Venezuela's oil reserves, which we should not be invading other countries for anyway, is not an easy source of future wealth or power for the United States.

1:25.4

President Donald Trump ran for office promising fewer foreign

1:29.0

entanglements. He wanted to be remembered as a peacemaker. What are we doing? Watching President

1:36.4

Trump stand on that stage and say America is now running Venezuela, the people standing behind him

1:41.8

are now running Venezuela, watching Secretary of State and National Security Advisor Marco Rubio then try to walk that back, say, no, no, we're just running policy in Venezuela.

1:50.7

Do we have a plan?

1:53.4

This was a profound gamble from an administration that to a very large extent ran for office this time promising

2:03.4

an end to these kinds of gambols, criticizing those that previous presidents had made in the past.

2:08.9

So what is the collection of arguments, views, interests, factions that led America to this point. And what comes after it?

2:21.2

Join me today is Jonathan Blitzer, who has covered immigration and the Trump administration

2:25.5

in Central America for the New Yorker. He's profiled Stephen Miller and gone deep into the

2:31.1

drugboat bombings. The Trump administration has been executing.

2:34.6

He's also the author of the excellent book, Everyone Who Is Gone is Here, The United States, Central America, and the making of a crisis.

2:44.0

As always, my email, Ezra Klein Show at NYTimes.com. dot com.

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