Thank you for listening to the Allender Center podcast.

I'm Dr. Dan Allender.

And I'm Rachel Clinton-Centen.

We're fiercely committed to providing hope and healing to a fragmented world.

And restoration for the heart.

Thank you for joining us.

Let's get this conversation started.

Rachel, you put it so brilliantly, even in our initial conversation a few moments ago. Like, we've been in Friday and Saturday.

We do a lot of work there.

We don't do it without an awareness of Sunday,

but we're going to spend most of today talking about the resurrection, about Easter.

And that, I'm just excited.

There's something about, look, if you've got the openness to address Friday, you need Sunday.

You can't really deal with what Friday holds, and that is humiliation and shame, unless

there is something of the promise of something other.

And you really can't deal with the despair and silence

of Saturday, holy Saturday, without something of the promise of Sunday. So I say to you,

well, how is the resurrection for you?

Oh, what a big question.

Oh, I know.

It's so unkind.

Oh, I mean, I think being, as I was saying to you, like, Good Friday, holy Saturday, like being people who work in trauma

...