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Hello and welcome to coffee house shots.

The Spectators Daily Politics Podcast.

I'm Natasha Fros and I'm joined by Kate Andrews and Fraser Nelson.

Fraser, you have mentioned several times in the COVID inquiry today where Rishi Sunak took the stand.

Why were you so important?

I think it's the Prime Minister who's the important one and this really candid interview

he gave to me last year, which came at a time when he thought he was losing to this trust, or other he knew that he'd lost to his trust.

Everything seemed pretty bleak to him, and he was like, what have I got to lose mode.

So spoke very freely about his

frustrations during lockdown about the complete lack of them any rigorous

analysis any cost-benefit analysis and his own shock at finding out the system was as

shoddy as it was and also the way that he felt unable even to make basic inquiries

in the system because inside government the atmosphere

had become so toxic but to ask any questions about the implications of

lockdown was seen to be disloyal to the Prime Minister himself.

So Rishi Sunach in his Spectator interview, which we called the lockdown files,

which we've made free to read by the way, if anybody who goes lockdown files and Spectator,

...