Welcome to Democracy Isham Toray.

And I'm Danielle Moody.

And we have a special guest with us.

Yes, so excited to welcome to Democracy-ish.

Friend of mine, Jonathan Metzell, who is also the author of The Yes, so excited to welcome to Democracy-ish.

Friend of mine, Jonathan Metzl, who is also the author of Dying of Whiteness,

which apparently we all are now dying of.

Yeah, wait, are we, are we black and brown people dying of whiteness?

Are you saying white people are dying?

Because I feel like we're dying of whiteness, not death.

I'm, we're dying of white supremacy, but go ahead, Jonathan.

Let me tell you. I think right now we're all dying of whiteness.

I mean, the book that I wrote was really one about the profound negative health effects

of basically anti-immigrant, anti-government pro-gun policies

in the Midwest and showing how even though those were supposed to be the policies that made

white America great again, in fact, they made lifespans kind of harder, sicker, and shorter

for a variety of people.

Certainly, they had profound negative effects for communities of color.

That was kind of the idea.

But what I found in my research was that they were also shortening lifespans for white Americans.

And so what I argue in the book is like, this is a wake-up call that, you know,

really we should really quickly understand the importance of diversity and of having a more horizontal society, because if these policies keep going, many more people are going to die, and that was before the

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